How these long winter evenings just fly by!!! (Facebook 31.1.2012)

Facebook update entry by ‘Christian’ (31.1.2012)

Far to many pastors dont have the balls to preach the Gospel and the danger humans are in, lukewarm/wishywashy pastors stop being nice and make a stand for Jesus, Go listen to Mark Driscoll, Tim Keller, John Piper and lloyd Jones.

The Ensuing conversation…

  • ‘Jane’ to Christian – U ANGRY, WHAT HAPPENED?
  • Christian – Only angry at crap pastors
  • Drummerboy – I used to be angry at crap dealers…things change i guess…
  • Christian – I,v never met a good dealer mate
  • Drummerboy sorry…but i’ve never, as yet, met a good pastor…
  • Christian 2 – I think one of the reasons for this may be an over-reaction to what has been termed fire-and-brimstone preaching where the coming judgment of God was a prominent feature. Whether or not such preaching over-emphasised judgment at the expense… of grace I don’t know but I do believe that the liberal, pluralistic spirit of the age would have us speak of grace without mentioning judgment. Of course, to do so, is to rob the gospel of its power. For if there is no judgment, there is no cross and, without the cross, you have a god whose love for you cost him nothing. There is no power in that. But if it cost God everything, if our sin is so serious that it took the agonised death of the perfect son of God, all because He loved us enough to die in our place then there is nothing more empowering, comforting or freeing.You see the devil doesn’t care whether he tricks us into moralism/legalism or into liberalism/relativism, as long as he keeps us from believing and proclaiming and living the gospel. 
  • Christian –  To be honest I v never met a good human being
  • Drummerboy –  The word ‘judgment’ could do with a bit of a going over…what do you lot reckon? 
  • Christian 2  –  Drummerboy, your experience would seem to prove Christian’s point. What is needed imho (and hence, what we should be praying for) is a recovery of a biblical understanding of the Gospel as the power of God for both salvation *and* sanctification, and for the quickening power of the Holy Spirit.
  • Drummerboy –  Please explain the first nine words Christian 2
  • Not sure I follow Drummerboy?
  • Drummerboy – please explain the first nine words of your last statement…
  • Christian 2 –  Ah ok… 
  • Christian –  Hitler and people as such have to be judged so if that’s the case we all need to be judged, therefore there has to be an ultimate authority.
  • Drummerboy – Why?
  • Drummerboy –  Christian 2 – you’ve gone away…
  • Christian 2 – Well Christian is critiquing pastors who don’t preach a full gospel. This, by and large, has been my experience too (although praise be to God I see faint glimmers of change on the horizon). But when sin is preached our need for grace becomes clearer and thus the gospel of being saved by grace, apart from works becomes more attractive. Secondly, when sin and the cross are both clearly proclaimed lives are transformed. Thus the gospel produces people who, whilst still far from perfect, start to become like Christ who love others, even their enemies, sacrificially. Such selfless, Christ-like love is attractive but sadly hard to find. Does that help?
  • Christian –  We all have a truth claim, wots the difference
  • Drummerboy – But i don’t talk about mine in a public forum..discuss… 
  • Christian – Yes u do
  • Christian 2 -Drummerboy , I presume your last was to Christian but I hope you don’t mind if I jump in. Quite simply, if, as we believe, there is a coming judgment and that the only way to escape that judgment is through faith in Jesus Christ, do you think it would be right to keep that to ourselves? 
  • Christian – Brilliant!!
  • Drummerboy – I don’t believe such guff…and you have no evidence which may change that view…
  • Christian – Wot evidence do u hav to bak up ur truth claim ?
  • Drummerboy – I tend to stand by my fear of an encroaching death and don’t try to pretend that it is anything but that…death…the end…and how i have lived my life…in balance…is how i shall be remembered…i am scared of dying…but don’t make shit up to pretend that it isn’t happening…or is going to happen…
  • Drummerboy – explain ‘truth claim’…
  • Christian –  To live is Christ , to die is gain.
  • Christian – So how will u b remembered ?
  • Drummerboy – please explain…no one is actually answering anything…i am bored of other people’s quotes…what are ‘your’ answers to the questions i have broached…
  • Drummerboy – i probably won’t be…but that is an objective opinion which i am in no position to answer…wouldn’t you agree??
  • Christian – Ur truth claim is that other people shud keep their truth claims to themselves.
  • Christian 2 -Drummerboy – I wouldn’t pretend to have such evidence. What I would say is that everyone has a set of core beliefs on which they base their lives which, ultimately come down to a matter of faith and not evidence. The question to consider then is wh…at faith assumptions make the most sense of the world, suffering and the meaning of life and so on and offer the greatest hope for the flourishing of mankind? And, since ultimately you can no more prove whatever you believe than I can, then, for your own sake, shouldn’t you at least consider the claims of christianity and how they would answer these questions in comparison to any other religion (including those who would say they have no religion at all as I think I can make a case that everyone, even the most atheistic has a set of beliefs driving all they do – but that would be a whole other discussion.
  • Drmmerboy –  As i asked a minute ago Christian, please explain ‘truth claim’…
  • Drummerboy –  Sweeping generalisation that isn’t it Christian 2’everyone has a set of core beliefs’…why do you make that assumption?
  • Christian 2 –  I think by ‘truth claim’ Christian means simply a claim to know the ultimate truth about life. Not in the sense of knowing everything about it but in the sense that if that is the truth, anything wihch contradicts it cannot be right.
  • Christian –  Thanks Christian 2, Beautifully written.
  • Drummerboy –  I asked Christian, Christian 2…what say you Christian??
  • Drummerboy – Christian 2, why do you feel the need to speak for Christian??
  • Christian 2 –  I make that assumption both because I believe the Bible teaches it and my experience bears it out. As an example, have you not begun to hint at your own beliefs in the post that speaks of fear of encroaching death?
  • Drummerboy –  Thanks Christian 2 – my question was…why do you feel the need to speak for Christian?
  • Christian 2 –  I don’t and certainly don’t mean to come across that way. As I intimated before one of the effects of the gospel is it creates a desire to want to share the joy and freedom we have been given in Christ Jesus. I will happily bow out if you prefer?
  • Christian- Drummerboy –  I get a sense that ur beef is wiv me and not Christianity, let’s explore that shall we.
  • Christian –  I love Jesus and I believe the bible and no one will snatch me from His keep.
  • Drummerboy -No beef with you Christian, but if you have a view…it would behove you to explain what you believe…and to answer any direct questions put to you…as i would you…your friend is clearly an intellectual giant…but hasn’t ‘directly’ answered any of the questions i have put to him…and seems to feel the need to speak on your behalf…doesn’t that just piss you off!!!
  • Christian – Intresting discussion, God bless everyone.
  • Drummerboy -Christian 2…you did feel the need to speak on Christian’s behalf yet have chosen not to offer an explanation as to why…am i completely nuts here…or have you all just gone away into a darkened room somewhere…desparately praying for my soul…or whatever it is you do in darkened rooms…why do none of you answer specific questions about what YOU believe…without quoting the bible…which, if you hadn’t guessed…holds absolutely NO sway in my life…and i suspect…is NOT the word of God…i mean how can it be…it has been written by humans…and humans have agendas…ever heard of chinese whispers??…it simply doesn’t ring true…and i will NEVER be judged by this book and its contents…so please stop banging on about it in fucking public…do it in private…as is your privilege.

 – And then everyone went away…so i went to bed…


3 Responses to “How these long winter evenings just fly by!!! (Facebook 31.1.2012)”

  1. whoa interesting!…. i did the whole ‘born again’ thing when i was 22 years old and spiritually dying in a dead end job in Wythenshawe Hospital. this was prompted purely by fear…. terrified I was going to die of some new gay plague called AIDS because I had never encountered a condom and what else was there to do in Newall Green in the early 1980’s once the sexual free-for all had been well and truly pissed on by fear, ignorance and downright bigotry.
    i was still in denial about my core sexuality of desiring women NOT men… and working extremely hard to prove myself as blatantly heterosexual.

    as you might imagine, the ‘Christians’ loved me… their very own prodigal daughter who God would forgive as long as i never had sex out of wedlock again! i was also promised God would make my wedding night like ‘my first time’. this left me more than a little bemused as a) saying no sex was like saying no breathing.. and b) my first time was in someone’s front room, pissed out of my tree and, to be frank, i’ve had farts which have given me more sexual arousal.

    nevertheless i stuck around, got married, as those Christian boys might talk the talk but don’t believe for one second they walk the walk… three sexual assaults of differing physical severity but devastating in that they were all ‘my fault’ in that i was a ‘bike’, ‘a siren’, ‘a temptress, used by the devil to cause these ‘good Christian boys to sin’. just a dirty whore who can’t say no, in short. so i got married and the church rejoiced at my ‘union’.

    attitudes and biblical indoctrination, such as you describe in the voices of ‘Christian 1’ and ‘Christian 2’ DB, kept me in that marriage for 17 years. I had three children within that marriage though the marriage was dead within 6 months and myself and my children were held hostage there by appalling psychological domestic violence that was condoned by and colluded with by the biblical teaching of the church and other ‘Christians’ sound biting all the same unfeeling drivel that Christians 1 and 2 are spurting in your text above DB.

    i got off lightly…. i left said marriage with children in tow after 17 years and survived:- complete contempt and annihilation by 99.9% of my so called close Christian friends, suicide attempts, 10 years of crippling mental illness with numerous periods of hospitalisation, drug, alcohol, food, sex addiction which cost my children their innocence, their mother and their childhoods.

    today, incredibly, i still have a faith in a power greater than myself. I have recovery, my mental and physical health, my children back in my life and an acceptance of my own powerlessness over addiction. whoever or whatever God is, i don’t believe God is a bible thumper who only loves white middle class heterosexuals with degrees in theology who cherry pick verses in the bible to collude with their own lies, closed mindedness and unwillingness to consider different perspectives… the vilest, cruellest people i have ever encountered have been amongst, and often held in high esteem by, the born again Christian community.

    apologies for a response that is probably longer than your original blog DB… you caught a raw nerve and this is just the tip of the iceberg of the consequences of said raw nerve.

    Brilliant blog by the way! thanks x

  2. UH, what they fuck are they saying?? Or trying to say? As usual, they’re talking in circles and saying nothing. Sadly typical.

  3. They cant answer the questions because the whole bible/christianity is just a plagurised story and if they try to research the truth or origins to gain a better knowlege it would lead them to the reality that its all a big lie. so better to stick with blind faith and no knowledge.

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